Ike Willis provided 'bionic baritone' and rhythm guitar for Zappa from 1978 until the ill-fated 1988 world tour.

He can be seen in the Does Humor Belong In Music? (1985) home video and heard on numerous Zappa albums – including Joe's Garage (1979) as the voice of Joe, Tinsel Town Rebellion (1981), You Are What You Is (1981), Ship Arriving Too Late To Save A Drowning Witch (1982), The Man From Utopia (1983), Them Or Us (1984), Thing-Fish (1984) as the titular character, Frank Zappa Meets The Mothers Of Prevention (1985), Does Humor Belong In Music? (1986), Broadway The Hard Way (1988), The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life (1991), Make A Jazz Noise Here (1991), Buffalo (2007), The Lumpy Money Project/Object (2009), Chicago '78 (2016), Zappa '88: The Last U.S. Show (2021) and Zappa '80—Mudd Club/Munich (2023).

Willis claims he was the last band member to be with Zappa who, the week before he died, told him to keep his music alive.

And that's what he's been doing ever since, performing around the globe with cover bands such as the Muffin Men (UK), Project Object (USA), Ossi Duri (Italy), The Central Scrutinizer Band (Brazil) and ZAPPATiKA (based in Amsterdam).

He was also a member of the original Band From Utopia and has performed with Dweezil and his band.

Willis has released two solo albums – Should a Gone Before I Left (1988), which features contributions from Ray White and Arthur Barrow, and Dirty Pictures (1998) – and was a regular at Zappanale for a number of years.

And it was backstage at Zappanale in 2009, while Terry Bozzio played his solo drum set finale, that I interviewed Willis for my Zappa The Hard Way book. He also had time to answer a few other ‘off-topic’ questions.

 

When did you know you were in on the 1988 tour – Mike Keneally’s diaries imply that, while you were around for rehearsals in 1987, it wasn’t clear that you were to be part of the touring band?

No, not to me. Frank always called me and said, “Okay, rehearsals start on such and such a date...” No, no, I knew when rehearsals were starting. Mike didn’t know.

He said you were there, but...

I’m always there, but I never hang around. When Frank says be there, I’m there. He didn’t allow hanging around, it was time to go to work and I was there.

You’ve got to remember that by the time Keneally came in, there were two different bands: there was me, Flo & Eddie, Ed Mann and Tommy Mars. And Chad Wackerman and Frank and Ray White. Then, a couple of days later, there was no Tommy, no Flo & Eddie. And then there was Keneally and Scott Thunes and Chad, Ray and me and Frank.

Within a week, there were two different bands.

Rehearsals started on October 2, 1987.

Good memory!

It was my job to remember! That was my job in Frank’s band – to remember everything. That was my job.

There are various theories as to why Flo & Eddie left.

Well, that movie came out called Making Mr. Right with John Malkovich, and Happy Together became a mega hit again. So Flo & Eddie had to go take care of those commitments. I don’t know what else, but I know that was a big, big factor.

What happened to Ray White?

Ray disappeared.

Do you know the story behind that?

No, not really. I don’t know what happened because I didn’t see him again for ten years – until he popped up at my door and there he was.

I heard that his house was burgled.

That part I know about, because Ray and I...we’re each other’s son’s Godfathers. So somebody broke into his house, where they were living in San Francisco. They’d been living there for like twenty-some odd years and then in 1987 things started getting really, really bad. So he was having some troubles there and he came to stay with me.

But then one day he left my house and I didn’t see him again for ten years.

It’s funny, because I always thought of you and Ray as, like, brothers. Scott and Chad too!

Well, Ray and I, we’re the ‘Othello Brothers’. That’s us!

When did you first notice something happening between Scott and Chad?

About halfway through the ‘Broadway The Hard Way’ rehearsals.

The rehearsals?

Yeah, oh yeah. Things were just getting...

Well, I know that Scott is a strange character.

To say the very least. Very understated, Andy. I like that!

Funny as hell, but I’m not sure people always understand his humour.

Scott is wildly talented – I mean, one of the most amazing musicians I’ve ever seen. But there’s this... it’s just Scott.

But they’d been playing together for six years, hanging out and then suddenly, it just stopped. Scott can’t pinpoint any particular incident.

No, there was no specific incident: it just built up over time. It was Scott’s way of dealing with people.

He was still quite young at the time.

They were both very young. Scott didn’t get along with the horn section – the Fowlers – and stuff like that.

According to Scott, “I hate horns, blah, blah, blah.” He was the Clonemeister at the time, so that was another thing.

Because Ed Mann used to be the Clonemeister...

Ed was my Clonemeister, when I came in in 1978, then Artie was the Clonemeister after that and then on my last tour, Scott was the Clonemeister.

But after things started getting really tense between Scott and Chad, Frank tried to split it up between me and Scott: he said, “Okay, you let Scott handle the notes and you conduct the band.”

So for the last month of rehearsals, I was conducting the band and Scott was handling the dots on the page.

So you were kind of a mediator?

My job was to sit on Scott and make sure nobody killed him. [laughs] It’s true! Frank said, “Just make sure they don’t kill him.”

I really didn’t get that impression from what I’ve read and heard: Frank seemed almost unaware of what was going on.

No. Frank knew what was going on – at all times.

Actually, there was one incident during rehearsals where Scott just pissed off Bruce Fowler and everybody in the horn section. I said, “Okay, everybody stop. Go to lunch.” Then the phone rang and it was Frank calling from the house saying, “What’s going on down there?”

He wasn’t even there! He knew what was going on. I have no idea how, because this had just happened, like, less than a minute after I’d said, “Lunch! Everybody take a break; Scott, go over there.”

The phone rang and it was our sound mixer, Harry Andronis, saying, “Ike, it’s Frank – he wants to talk to you.” And Frank said, “What’s going on. Talk to me. What the hell is happening down there?”

Less than a minute. He was never aloof. He knew exactly what was going on. He was kept abreast of everything. I don’t know how he did it [laughs]... but he did it. Trust me.

Mike Keneally, in his tour diaries, and Scott in Wictor’s book, talk about you running up and down the bus, talking to everyone – you and Albert Wing, very upbeat, very chatty. Is that you?

Well, I talk to everybody. The thing is, Albert and I, we’d been together with the Fowler Brothers’ band almost as long as I’d been in the Zappa band. So Albert and I were good friends. That’s just us.

The crucial thing here is that there were two buses: the smoking bus and the non-smoking bus.

Yeah, there was the guys-who-loved-to-hang-out-with-Frank bus and there was the older guys: which was us. The salty old veterans’ bus – that was like my tenth year in the band.

Talking about Albert – do you recall his ‘pretend’ marriage in 1988? This lady, Randee Pollock, was following the band around...

Oh yeah, Randee! Yeah! I remember her, she followed us. My God, that’s right. But I don’t remember the fake wedding. Her, I remember.

She was like a hanger-on?

Oh yeah, definitely – definitely hanging on there. Wow!

So, anyway, there were intimations of some problems during rehearsals. But talking to Scott, he seems to think it was all manageable.

Well of course he would!

Until Springfield, when there was this showdown – an unusual band meeting?

That was in Portland, Maine. I remember quite well. Chad said something to somebody in the crew and Scott made one of his offside comments to Chad and Chad said, “That’s it. I’ve had it.”

And of course, within minutes, Frank knew about it and called us to his dressing room for a meeting and said, “Hey, I’m not gonna put up with this. I don't like rocking the boat. This is a very expensive tour, a very long tour...”

We know about the East Coast tour and then Europe: were there actually any dates booked for the West Coast?

Yeah. At the end of the Europe tour, we were gonna come home, break for a couple of weeks and then start rehearsals for the Fall leg and we were booked until New Year’s. Then it all got called off

Were you ever provided with any intended itinerary?

Unfortunately, no – Frank hadn't given them to me yet.

I know Frank talked about possible dates in Israel and elsewhere.

Yeah. We had a whole schedule. Frank always told me, “Okay, this is what the schedule is: we’re gonna be in blah-blah...”

I’m not gonna say he always called me first, but I was always one of the first he called.

Scott says he was usually one of the last to know, because he lived a long way away.

Yeah, he’s from San Francisco. But Frank would always call me and say, “Okay, rehearsals start on this day.”

Okay. Once the problem had been aired, then suddenly things started happening. Like Scott’s laminated backstage pass got defaced. Do you know who did that?

Oh, the guys in the crew. That’s what I’m saying: he pissed off all of the guys in the crew; he pissed off the horn section. He doesn’t play well with others, let’s put it that way. So the guys in the crew would find ways to upset him.

So it wasn’t anyone from the band, not the horn players?      

No.

It was the road crew?

Yeah. It wasn’t anything specific. He rubbed everybody up the wrong way. I was the only one he really got along with and I wouldn’t take sides – I’d just say, “Don’t do this, man. Don’t do it.”

Scott says that after the showdown, only you, Robert Martin, Albert Wing and – obviously – Mike Keneally, came up to him and said, “We didn’t know anything about this. We don’t agree with what was said.”

Well, the thing is...I agreed and I told Scott, “You’ve got to stop doing this, man – you’re pissing too many people off. Stop!”

Like I said, Frank told me to sit on him and make sure they didn’t kill him. Those were his words: “Please, try your best.”

And on that day in Portland, Maine he got away from me for about five minutes, said something to one of the guys in the crew, set them off. Set Chad off and that’s when we had the big meeting.

It seemed like throughout that tour, you and Frank always got along and had fun on stage. I’m thinking of the Barcelona show, with you and Frank arm in arm singing Find Her Finer.

Oh God – yeah, we had so much fun.

Any particularly fond memories from that whole tour?

Oh, just too many. We just had so much fun. On any given day, it would be whatever was the in-joke of the day... whatever happened would become part of the show.

I’d be at my mike, singing, playing, trying to do my job and Frank would sliiiiide over to me and suddenly he’s right there and in the middle of a verse, he’d say something and I’m on the floor. Then, of course, now I’ve got to get him back. We could go on like that all night long. As the tour progressed, it would get more and more like that.

Another time, I remember Scott didn't show up for soundcheck. Everybody else was there, and when Frank walks in and somebody’s not there, he was pretty pissed off. We had to go over Bolero, because we'd just started doing it at that stage of the tour. So Frank told me to grab Scott's bass and play his part on Bolero. Now my job in the band was to make sure I knew everybody's parts. So naturally, I knew the bass part. And I proceeded to play for the first time the bass part on Ravel's Bolero. I played the song, and I didn't make any mistakes – I have no idea how I managed to do that! I made it through the song and at the end, when we hit the last note, everybody got up and gave me a standing ovation. That was one of the happiest moments of my life.

But that was the hardest I ever worked on any tour. We worked and worked and worked. See, that’s the thing: in 1978, at that point, Frank gave me a lot of room, a lot of leeway.

He seemed to give Scott a lot of room, as well.

Yes, he did. It’s like I say: Scott is an incredible musician. But, of course, consider the rest of the band: we’ve got the Fowler brothers. We’ve got Albert, we’ve got Paul Carman and Kurt McGettrick, Bobby and Ed and Chad. And Mike. Everybody’s just a phenomenal musician. So it was a great time.

Who’s Greg Bolognese?

He’s one of my oldest friends – from Long Island, New York. I’ve known Bolognese since he was a teenager.

Frank described him as a friend of his, too.

Oh yeah. He used to come to the shows before I joined the band. He was in his teens – he was like 13, 14, 15 years old. I met him when he was 15 or 16. He always used to come to the shows.

The New York gang. They always bought the same seats. Front row. Same guys, every tour since 1978, since I was in the band. Every time we go to New York, same seats, same guys. Bolognese was right in the middle. I’ve known those guys forever. They’re still there: Stevie, Eugene, Bolognese, the LaMastro brothers, Jack Conklin... all those guys, when I’m there with Project Object – whenever I’m in New York with anybody – those guys are there, man.

Some of them have moved out to Florida: Stevie lives in Florida; Eugene moved to Florida. Colin LaMastro moved Upstate, but I see him when I’m in Upstate New York.

Greggie still lives on Long Island. Conklin still lives in Manhattan. Joey Psychotic, he died of a liver ailment about five years ago.

The boys, you know? They’re very, very loyal.

What can you tell me about your solo material?

The Ike Willis Project is actually about to be up and running. In about three weeks, I’ve got to go back up North, to the North West, with Pojama People. We’re gonna hit the North West and Northern California in between that, I may be doing some preliminary gigs in the Bay Area – Santa Cruz, Eureka, stuff like that – with The Ike Willis Project.

I reformed the Ike Willis Band when I was living in the Bay Area.

Are these the guys that played on your solo albums?

No, not at all. But they are gonna be playing the stuff from my solo albums. Then I’m gonna start working – finally, if I have the time – on my new album.

So you have the songs written?

Oh, I’ve got at least three albums worth of material.

It’s really frustrating: as much as we love to see you playing the Zappa stuff, we’d like to hear some of your solo material performed live.

Yeah, imagine how I feel! I’ve got three albums worth of material that I haven’t even been able to record because of touring and getting resettled in LA.

So you moved out of Portland?

I lived in Portland. Then the Bay Area for two years. For the last three years, Denise and I have been in LA. Now we’re actually moving into our permanent place and I’m gonna start working on the new album as soon as I get home.

I’d like to ask you about Jeff Hollie - a couple of years ago, we met him in Holland.

You met him?

Yeah, he played with Cuccurullo Brillo Brullo, and they introduced him as this guy who played tenor sax with Frank.

He’s the ‘Jeff’ on Joe’s Garage.

He plays on your first album as well.

He’s my best friend from college. Me and my wife and him, we met on my first day in college in 1974. He’s my daughter’s Godfather. He and I, we started our first band together in our freshman year in college.

If it wasn’t for Jeff Hollie, I would have never been prepared for Frank Zappa. Jeff was the biggest Zappa fan in our circle. Jeff had all the albums, up to that point. I was at private school, from 1971 to 1974. After graduation, I was in college. Jeff, I met him on the basketball court. We go to our first orientation meeting; my wife to be is sitting across the room. So I met her and then we’re hanging out in the dormitories and Jeff said, “Hey, man – are you into Zappa?” I said, “Yeah.” We were into Yes, Zappa, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return To Forever.

The Beatles?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Beatles, I love them.

My roommate was a Yes freak. I was listening to the Mahavishnu Orchestra, Genesis, Return To Forever, The Beatles, you name it. So we’d all just sit up there smoking doobies and listen to our favourite stuff. Jeff brought me up to speed on all the latest Zappa stuff.

So by the time Frank came to our school – Washington University – and did a concert a few years later, I was on the local crew and we made eye contact. After a while, Frank takes me to his dressing room, hands me his guitar and says, “Do you know any of my shit?” And I said, “Yeah,” and he said, “Well, play me something.” And I could because of Jeff Hollie.

So how do you repay your best friend? I mean, if it wasn’t for him, there would be no Ike WiIlis, okay? He’d always wanted to play with Frank. All through the Joe’s Garage sessions, Jeff was there. So I said, “Frank, please: he knows all your stuff. At least put Jeff on one song.”

And it was on the title track [sings:] “...even if you play it on the saxophone...” – that’s Jeff. It was the only thing I could come up with to really repay him for what he’d done.

 

Interview conducted on Sunday 16th August 2009. The complete interview with Ike can be found in Andrew's book Frank Talk: The Inside Stories Of Zappa's Other People (Wymer UK, 2017). Photo of Ike with the sleeping Idiot taken by John Campbell backstage at Zappanale.